Anti-After Effects Users Rant.

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9/29/2013, 3:33 pm
Well, I wrote this up on my own forum Still-Framed. But the people I talk about in this post actually pertain to quite a few animators here on the Spritas. So thought I'd post it here as well. Not gonna point fingers and call out names. But yeah. Mainly wanted to lay down my views about this. Not trying to force any of you to change. I also realize I will probably make a few of ya'll dislike me with this, but here it goes -copypasta-

Aight, I'm currently pouring hours and hours into this project in After Effects right now. And in the back of my head I keep getting reminded of the comments/people that are AE-hating. You know who you are.

I am failing to fully understand what people's damn problem is with using additional programs for your videos. Why do you think sticking with a single program is the only way to do things? All I can think of is that you are really passionate about Flash animation, and your goals involve pushing your Flash's capabilities further and further. ...Well, I hope that's the case, because I do acknowledge and love animators that always try to push the boundaries of what's possible. But on the other hand... if you're only using Flash because that's what most do and you're comfortable with it. Then all you're doing is restricting yourself. (PS. This is directed towards very experienced Flash animators, not newbies).

I mean, if you're satisfied with where you are in Flash and don't care about getting better. Don't go hate on people experimenting with AE. This especially drives me crazy in SFC threads (on Still-Framed) when I see people vote against others ONLY because they factor in that  additional programs were used. The fact that you have to give a program handicap on a Flash-only user only means you are aware that the quality of the AE animation is better. So many of you are unfamiliar with AE and think that throwing in your animation into AE magically makes it look beautiful and there isn't much work put into it. Well, you're absolutely wrong. There's a fuckload of work put into the AE-side of doing things. If someone is animating with AE, they have to go back and touch up everything. It's like animating it all over again, doing almost double the work.

Now here's the important part, what I was saying before... I am aware that there are Flash animators that like to animate in Flash because they want to constantly push the limits of what Flash can do. Pull off some crazy shit that people never thought possible. I know that feeling all too well because that's exactly what I was doing before hopping onto AE. Anyways.. The other day, I was talking to someone on Skype and he said this to me.
im trying to think outside the box and do what lange does in Blender, in flash alone
so far it works
Its stupid to use programs meant for real life movies just for pixels..
dont you think?
When talking to him I responded that, "If you can get the results and final product that you want, then programs don't matter. I think AE improves the quality of my stuff so I'll use it." But now.. after thinking about it a bit more... What the fuck. "stupid to use programs meant for real life movies for pixles?!" Flash is a program created for web applications and games for the most part. So by your logic about AE, Flash should be just as stupid, if not stupider than AE.

The program Flash was not created for sprite animation. People made it that way. The early pioneers of sprite animation, such as Randy Solem, didn't give two shits what Flash was actually used for. To them, Flash was a software in which they were fully able to express their creative ideas/visions, in a very simple and effective manner. Now, for myself and many others, Flash isn't powerful enough to express everything I want to throw out. Even though After Effects was created for film, myself and others are now making it applicable for sprite animation. There is nothing wrong with this. If I want to add more color correction or have 2.5D effects, I don't need to waste fucking hours of finding gimmicks of how to pull it off in Flash without lagging the shit out of it. It's more efficient, accurate, powerful with AE's software.

So I believe that an animators focus should not be how far you can push a program to pull off unbelievable/amazing animation. I think the focus should be, how unbelievable you can make the animation itself look. Although both of these goals are similar, cause you pretty much have to do both, the primary focus should be on making the animation itself look as visually good as possible, not in the precise techniques and skills in a program (as important as that is). Because I don't have the mindset that AE is all I need. Once I find things in AE that are restricting me from what I want to do and pull off in my animation, I will be moving on and figuring out what other programs and what else to do.

Again, this is directed at certain people, don't get too offended if you are comfortable, satisfied, and happy with animating in Flash. It's towards those who talk so much shit on After Effects, you guys know who you are. I just wanted to explain this further because your way of hating on AE annoys the hell out of a lot of people. And I've noticed about 90% of you who think this way have hardly improved in animating, and I think it's because of that ugly mindset you guys have. I'm not forcing you to change your beliefs, but I really think the people who are able to adapt and change really show better results compared to you guys.

Someone posted this on Still-Framed, and just wanted to repost it here.
Quite true.

To be honest, I couldn't care less as to what people prefer in using for animations. I personally use only Flash NOT mainly because that I don't have the willingness to invest time in studying AE, but because I have an affinity to be manipulative in using simpler materials/tools. In my own process of animating, I don't utilize AE because I don't think it's necessary for me to have. I'm satisfied with what I have and what feedback I receive with it. I know that someday I'll have to pursue in using more advanced tools (which is probably sooner than I think), but I'll go at my own leisure. I myself have much more to learn about Flash and animating in general.

As long as the final product is satisfying to view, whether it be primitive or advanced, you should use whatever you want.
And I responded...
Just want to say I COMPLETELY ACCEPT THIS. You are right in everything u said!
Just want to emphasize, this isn't directed at all Flash animators.

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9/29/2013, 3:57 pm
Haha, it's nice to see that you still think about us over here

I think most of are pretty accepting of and very impressed by sprite animations that have utilized AE. That said, I have seen those "Flash-elitists" you speak of and I have never once understood their mindset. If you're someone who is looking to get better then of course you will begin utilizing more/better tools because that's what the advancement of the human race has been based on. That's how I see it anyway.
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9/29/2013, 4:06 pm
There are people like that O_O thats like saying if you want to make rock music you can only use the main 4 instruments (guitar, bass, drums, mic) and if you use other instruments you're cheating

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9/29/2013, 4:15 pm
Didn't even know this was a problem. The end product is what should be judged.

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9/29/2013, 4:16 pm
@BDB wrote:Didn't even know this was a problem.
^ THIS

I read that long shit I was like Fuck the What? Who Are these ppl?

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9/29/2013, 4:30 pm
Haha, maybe it's not as much of a problem here as I thought (Glad to see that). But on Still-Framed Fourms certain users are very annoying about it.

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9/29/2013, 4:53 pm
Yeah we like to see all kinds of animations...

(Probably because we're all lazy and don't animate regularly anymore...) Lol, we're working to change that though!
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9/29/2013, 5:13 pm
Dude when I read the title I thought this was a rant ANTI the after effects users. Like you were bashing them. Glad that's not the case.

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9/29/2013, 5:40 pm
@spritefan2 wrote:The fact that you have to give a program handicap on a Flash-only user only means you are aware that the quality of the AE animation is better.
well, sure
but if youre saying its not valid to give the flash user then handicap no

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9/29/2013, 6:13 pm
the problem i have with some people when they use AE, is that they use it mainly for eyecandy, as if that is going to make their animation better.
it's the same thing when people go asking for effects to use in their stuff, thinking that those will help their animation. it won't. if your animation is great, then great effects are going to enhance it, but if your stuff is shitty animation-wise, then it won't matter whether you have awesome effects or no effects at all.
other than that, yeah, it's fine to use AE, blender or whatever the hell else you wanna use it. if it improves your workflow, makes things easier to implement and whatnot, then there's no problem.
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9/29/2013, 6:17 pm
the only sprite animations I see using AE are fucking dbz videos which the majority use it for their stupid fucking LSWi sprites and have charge up videos for a fucking minute with just that ONE sprite sitting there not moving.

I have no problem with people using AE, Company's sure as hell don't use just 1 program. I just hate it when they make stupid shit like that.

"Hey guyz herez my AE tezt. i haz my caracter chrgin up 4 7 minutez wile i uze shitty powr up efectz lul i r aewshum"

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9/29/2013, 6:21 pm
@SXR123 wrote:the only sprite animations I see using AE are fucking dbz videos which the majority use it for their stupid fucking LSWi sprites and have charge up videos for a fucking minute with just that ONE sprite sitting there not moving.

I have no problem with people using AE, Company's sure as hell don't use just 1 program. I just hate it when they make stupid shit like that.

"Hey guyz herez my AE tezt. i haz my caracter chrgin up 4 7 minutez wile i uze shitty powr up efectz lul i r aewshum"
yeah, i hate these videos. i mean, sure, if someone is new to AE, they're not going to be lange or anything, but i'd keep that sort of thing to myself (and actually not do that at all.) people should actually put effort in the animation, not the effects.

it's like when people are painting and they focus on the rendering instead of getting a good distribution of light and shadows.
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9/29/2013, 6:23 pm
You could make some shit on paint if you wanted for all I care, as long as Im not looking at Goku fight 10 different haired Gokus for 3 hrs with subpar animation quality or some sorry piece of shit that thinks flashy lights can compensate for sucking at the very basics of animation, idgaf. Keep doing your thing man

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9/29/2013, 6:36 pm
Damn, makes me so happy all you guys understand. Guess I didn't have to bring all of this over to the Spritas. Sorry about that! Just an issue with a small part of the community on Still-Framed.

@ʇɹɐɥbǝıs bןɯ,
Ah no, I just meant the final product is what should be judged, don't consider and judge based on programs. Definitely possible to make a flash only animation look better than a lot of the AE stuff that's out there.

@Leo,
Yeah of course, I completely agree with you there. If you aren't good with the fundamentals in Flash, then it's like this:
Anti-After Effects Users Rant. IMUTR

But yeah, there's users on Still-Framed that just drive me insane. For example, some dipshit had the audacity to tell me that in THIS animation, it was just effect spam and hardly any effort on the flash character animation was done. Then he went on and voted against me only because of what I did in AE. To me, it should be obvious how much raw frame-by-frame animation was put into it: http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/ba2fc4f4510f3cb258aeca746810066c , http://puu.sh/3bths

But yeah, that's just only one example out of MANY posts I get on my animations. And it happens to nearly everyone who uses AE in the SF community. >: ... It's a bit demotivating. lol

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9/29/2013, 6:45 pm
Its usually this:
"omfg I cant keep my eyes off those effects, where did he find them....wait a minute, thats AE, he didnt download them at all, and to think I couldve had them, this anim sucks", this is usually from shitty animators that dont actually look at key factors of animation like fluidity, creativity, smoothness, etc. Instead they just want eye candy that they can later beg for, or they simply have a bitchfit over their inability to so what they just saw w/o having to learn an entire new program while still being shit at the one they so loyally use

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9/29/2013, 6:48 pm
Lol damn it, now I will have to watch that video again. I just love that pole dancing you threw in there. But yeah, people are stoopid... don't let it get ya down, brah

If you have a brain then it's very apparent that you put a ton of effort into your animations
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9/29/2013, 6:50 pm
I dunno why people on still framed don't like AE. staying with just 1 program is stupid.

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9/29/2013, 6:54 pm
He could always move to TheSpritas :3

We could use every member we can get

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9/29/2013, 7:09 pm
@D3Anims wrote:He could always move to TheSpritas :3

We could use every member we can get

THIS. I Like this idea right here. This man is going places
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9/29/2013, 7:10 pm
True. Especially if we are gonna get this Revitalization movement thing running.
Anyway that animation was sick man. Loved the creativity behind turning them into chicks xD never would have thought of that.
Myself, I'm not exactly good at flash yet but when I AM good enough, I plan on using other programs as well. For now however, I'll just focus on the basics.

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