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Spritan
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3/8/2012, 11:11 pm
This looks like tha next best thing lol I'm definitely getting into this when it's completed. Very Happy
Jellal
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Spritan
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3/8/2012, 11:27 pm
Wouldn't it be better to write this in C/C++ instead of Java?

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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
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3/8/2012, 11:54 pm
Toxic Reaper wrote:

Well I didn't delete flash yet but Im forced to use Helix because I'm to lazy to find a fireworks alternative
What part of you can't even animate in this thing yet do you not understand.
You can't do ANYTHING yet, it's just a prototype UI with a movable camera and the ability to import images and models. You can't animate, you can't even make a new frame, you can't do anything yet.
Why is everyone so stupid today.

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Watch your ass.
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N1nja
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Spritan
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3/9/2012, 1:42 am
@Eric wrote:
Toxic Reaper wrote:

Well I didn't delete flash yet but Im forced to use Helix because I'm to lazy to find a fireworks alternative
What part of you can't even animate in this thing yet do you not understand.
You can't do ANYTHING yet, it's just a prototype UI with a movable camera and the ability to import images and models. You can't animate, you can't even make a new frame, you can't do anything yet.
Why is everyone so stupid today.

Lol Excitement clouds logical thinking perhaps?
Leo
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3/9/2012, 9:57 am
@Jellal wrote:Wouldn't it be better to write this in C/C++ instead of Java?

They said they're making faster progress with Java.
It was being written in C++ actually, but they just started to write in Java anyway.

@Mr Lange wrote:We have decided now to move the project to Java. We are getting faster results this way both in program efficiency and development time. We can also do this without sacrificing any of the program's features or functionality. OpenGL is being used for the graphics, and we will likely be using OpenAL for the sound.
Jellal
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3/9/2012, 4:29 pm
@Leo wrote:
@Jellal wrote:Wouldn't it be better to write this in C/C++ instead of Java?

They said they're making faster progress with Java.
It was being written in C++ actually, but they just started to write in Java anyway.

@Mr Lange wrote:We have decided now to move the project to Java. We are getting faster results this way both in program efficiency and development time. We can also do this without sacrificing any of the program's features or functionality. OpenGL is being used for the graphics, and we will likely be using OpenAL for the sound.
Well that's a given, Java is a far less complex language than C/C++, but the end results make C/C++ worth the extra effort

___________________________________________________________________________________________

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
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3/9/2012, 5:40 pm
Listen carefully now.
The builds that are currently online can do very little. They are for testing simple shit we have implemented so far along with the swing gui.
The timeline and properties panel are basically dummies. They have no power over anything.
However, the layer that is selected does.
You can import many image types into the library. You can also import obj format models, complete with materials and textures.
To add those to the stage, you must:
Be in 3d camera mode (select Camera 1 from the list that pops up from the button on the bottom right of the stage).
Have a 3d layer selected. See the camera and the layer below it? Click on the layer so its selected. You cant add shit to a camera layer.
Then you can drag items from the library to the stage. You can't do anything with them once they're on the stage though since there are no tools yet either.

And we moved to Java since it was becoming too cumbersome to write in other languages. Since most of Helix is powered by Java, the difference in speed is negligible, like a 5% difference. More people are willing to program in Java, so the potential for support is a lot higher. And yes we are developing things much faster using Java.

Bear in mind Robert is a madman and he knows in advance how to do everything. Its just a matter of patience now.

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D3Anims
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3/9/2012, 6:58 pm
Im sure I've said this many times, but I'll say it again; Lange, I WUV UUUUUUU!!!

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Jellal
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3/9/2012, 9:30 pm
@Mr Lange wrote:Since most of Helix is powered by Java, the difference in speed is negligible, like a 5% difference.
Well you stated it's in its early stages, so that's to be expected.
But if it's going to be a heavy-set animating program, so C++/C might be a bit more reliable when it comes to stability and performance.

But yeah, Java has a wider community so that's a good call on support.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
inmortalkid
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3/10/2012, 2:55 pm
holy shit that sonic animation was like crap ima gonna download this
Leo
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3/10/2012, 3:11 pm
@inmortalkid wrote:holy shit that sonic animation was like crap

What.

No seriously what.
inmortalkid
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3/10/2012, 3:25 pm
im saying that the animation is like crap im not saying that the animation suck is like fucking good i already download the program lol any way on topi:nice lange keep making those awsome videos thanks for that helix introductions
BlitznBurst
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3/10/2012, 3:54 pm
This animation is crap, it doesn't suck.

Seriously that's what you're saying.

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SXR123
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3/10/2012, 4:04 pm
don't mind him.

even I can't translate that much stupidity, and I'm an expert at it.

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Helix Introduction Vid - Page 2 Accelerator_signature_by_kyuubi03-d3aqkga

ADOPT A CHAO!!
(figuratively speaking of course)
BlitznBurst
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3/10/2012, 4:49 pm
@inmortalkid wrote:im saying that the animation is like crap im not saying that the animation suck is like fucking good i already download the program lol any way on topi:nice lange keep making those awsome videos thanks for that helix introductions

English, what's that?

Also, you say "on topic," when you were talking about the animation, which was part of the video this topic is about, which means you weren't off-topic so HOW CAN YOU GET BACK ONM TOPIC WHEN YOU'RE ALREADY ON TOPIC DAMMIT

But I suppose I'm off-topic now.

That hypothetical animation was the best thing I've ever seen.
inmortalkid
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3/10/2012, 6:30 pm
MY god i repeat again when i say it was like crap it mean the animation was awesome how can i say omg this is shit i never said tha i said it when theres super noobs counting me UNDERSTAND YEAH THATS CAPS LOCK GOTTA PROBLEM WITH THAT
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3/10/2012, 8:07 pm
o_o

I can't translate that either.

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ADOPT A CHAO!!
(figuratively speaking of course)
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3/10/2012, 8:08 pm
Shut up on this topic.

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inmortalkid
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3/10/2012, 8:10 pm
Me or sxr123 ( it might be me why they hate me)
N1nja
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3/10/2012, 10:34 pm
Perhaps do you mean "That Sonic animation was the -SHIT-"????
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3/10/2012, 10:42 pm
All of you shut the fuck up.

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3/11/2012, 4:52 pm
I think I'll add what I added on the Sonic Retro topic:

Flash-method Timeline
Keyframes hold objects and all of their properties. Thus a keyframe's contents can be different from one moment to the next, and even interpolate values across keyframes given the objects involved are consistent across keyframes. This reverse of the typical hierarchy in 3d animation software allows for much more intuitive and versatile animation. You can have unlimited objects in a single keyframe and every object is still individual with its own properties. The next keyframe can be entirely different.

Clips
Similar to symbols in Flash or compositions in After Effects, clips have their own timelines. You can have keyframes and tweens in these timelines just like the root stage. Thus you can create animations of infinite complexity in a clip and nest that entire animation as a single object onto the parent timeline, into a single keyframe. You can instantiate a clip into any amount of keyframes at any point in time. Given the way Helix works with its method of timeline and keyframes, this is more powerful than After Effects or any other software's similar implementations, which seldom exist.

Frame-independent Animation
Frames are only a reference. While keyframes align themselves to frames normally, you can place and move them freely, having animation between frames, or stretching/scaling animations. Clips can be set to decimal frame numbers or have slower playback rates with fully interpolated animation. While this is typical of software such as Blender, it isn't for Flash and some others like Anime Studio which are bound to integer frames, despite having interpolation.

Expressions
Every property can be given expressions in its value input instead of only just plain numbers. After Effects has this power and it is invaluable for animation as far as I'm concerned. Helix will have very simple functions and a sort of object oriented method that can reference the properties in other objects. The whole topic on expressions will get very complicated so I won't bother right now.

Defaults
Every library asset can be given preconfigured properties, so that they always instantiate with an initial set of properties. For example, for a clip's frame number you could write r(0_1) which will generate a number between 0 and 1. Thus every time the clip is instantiated it will have slightly variated animation offsets. The defaults given to a library asset will apply whenever the object is instantiated, be it manually from library to stage, or if generated from particle emitters or mods. This eliminates a huge amount of typical settings usually demanded by particle systems, especially because clip animation obsoletes "over life" things like color and alpha. The animation potentials are infinitely more complex and accessible.

Mods
If an object is a generic container for an asset, a mod is a generic container for an operation. Any mod can be applied to any object. The mod may modify the object's appearance (visual filters, geometry distoartion), the object's transforms (parenting, constraints), or other aspects such as sound effects. There is also the action mod, which allows specific things to be triggered based on simple conditions. For example, an object can be instantiated when a property is tested true, or an object can be removed or replaced upon a collision. Consider when objects are instantiated they use their defaults, which eliminates the need to set initial properties. The action mod can be greatly simplified given the way Helix works. You can reduce all actions to "Set Property", "Create Object", and "Remove Object". For example, playing a sound is nothing more than creating the sound object. Mods are part of object properties so they can belong in its defaults. Thus you could add a physics mod to an object's defaults and it will always spawn with running physics. This alone eliminates the need for the particle system to have physics settings and creates a more generalized connected system.

3d Sounds
I've noticed in pretty much all software, sound features are horribly poor or barely exist. Flash is the one exception but even it is pretty lousy. Helix will have 3d sound objects just like a game engine/wysiwyg editor would. The sounds completely 2d or utilize its 3d transforms for volume and panning. All of its properties can be animated just like anything else. Sounds can even participate in clip objects, particle emitters, mods, etc.

Tile Mapper
This is a special tool Helix will have. It will allow rapid and bulk instantiation of objects from the library. You can select a library item, and the tile mapper can draw it into the stage. Can be placed by clicking, dragging, drawing lines or rectangles, etc. and all snapped to a grid or based on their bounding boxes, what have you. All of these objects can exist in a single keyframe but still be individually editable once placed. If we complete the transform mapper mod, this tool will obsolete the need for things such as foliage painting tools and the like.


So, these are the features that make Helix stand out. Helix will also be able to work with skeletal animation, vertex animation, handle materials and texturing, uv maps, lighting and shadows, all that stuff. The renderer will probably be hardware and have in-game graphics kind of quality, or a bit better at least. We are not shooting for advanced things such as raytracing and all it brings. Hopefully we can integrate with a third party renderer for that. The features I've described are all in theory right now of course but I do not see why it cannot work. That is why I'll continue to make videos to illustrate my point and Robert will continue to prototype these features in the program until they can be fully realized.

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BDB
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3/11/2012, 5:01 pm
I'm assuming this isn't working with Mac or won't ever be working for Mac?

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Mr Lange
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3/11/2012, 5:10 pm
Actually there's a very good chance that this could work for mac because Java is a cross platform language. OpenGL should work too though I don't know enough to say positively. Edit: Robert tells me it should definitely work on mac though we technically won't know until its done. I should point out that if you are working with a mac I have no sympathy for you and your pathetic kind. Apple products are terrible and always assume the end user has a low intellect. Get a fucking PC and work with a real computer.

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3/11/2012, 5:32 pm
i like it cant wait for its release
i need clarification on one thing
the playback format.

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