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on 11/26/2011, 8:36 pm
It seems you grew up with those saturday morning cartoons.
I have nothing against them but again, they're just superficial copies of what good cartoons were. Again, I have to say I enjoyed some.

I expected more stuff like Betty Boop, Popeye and other cartoons by Fleischer ;.;
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on 11/26/2011, 8:40 pm
Popeye was the reason for my first premature ejaculation

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on 11/26/2011, 8:53 pm
Well most dont know those so I tried to stay...some what current but...



" frameborder="0" loading="lazy" allowfullscreen >





to name a few that are not so main stream

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Leo
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on 11/26/2011, 8:58 pm
Woody Woodpecker is great.

Has everything I look for in cartoons - funny drawings, funny movements, good timing (which is usually done when you time your anims to beats or songs) and most importantly, FUN.

Yeah FUN with a capital F. Cartoons are supposed to be fun. To cheer you up when you work on a corporation where everything is gray and everyone there is serious.


But it seems people don't like to have fun anymore.
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on 11/26/2011, 9:08 pm
that's a sad truth dude

got one for ya


Last edited by Face on 11/26/2011, 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Leo
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on 11/26/2011, 9:10 pm
Man I think no one can do cartoons anymore.

Or at least, the execs behind the turd we get nowadays - rare exceptions to this are excluded.
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on 11/26/2011, 9:18 pm
@Leo wrote:
@Jellal wrote:See, what you're doing is defining cartoons to your own requirements, making you an elitist.
Elitists are never right.

I'm not defining cartoons to my own requirements.

Cartoons - I don't know if you noticied - ARE/SHOULD BE CARTOONY.
I don't know why some people like to think they should be anything else but fun and cartoony. Making serious, boring and bland things and then putting CARTOON on top of them is not right.
You just contradicted yourself right there.
You said cartoons should have some fluidity of real life motion, and not a simplistic art style, when simplistic art styles themselves convey a more cartoony esque feeling.
Your whole rant is just silly.
You're silly.
Your country is silly.
Your continent is silly.
The world is silly.
The solar system is silly.
The galaxy is silly.
The universe is silly.
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on 11/26/2011, 9:28 pm
@Jellal wrote:You just contradicted yourself right there.
You said cartoons should have some fluidity of real life motion, and not a simplistic art style, when simplistic art styles themselves convey a more cartoony esque feeling.
Hey it's ok
Like if anyone doing these new cartoons have a solid understanding of all animation principles plus talent, but it's ok.

And where the hell did I say that cartoons should have fluidity of real motion.
They need to be, yes, greatly animated, but can and SHOULD have an exaggerated style of movements that completely seems to forget that reality exists. The hell with realism, I want fun stuff.

And again I never said I want detailed drawings. I don't know where are you getting that from - probably from this weird mind of yours. If you read my posts you will see that in absolutely no post I'll say I want realistic drawings.

I said that the art is not good for what it should be. Simple.
FOP for example, doesn't have any good design theories applied to it - it's meant to be a flat cartoon, yes, but it has nothing that makes a true, flat cartoon good. Just to name a few stuff I can say that are bad in it is that there isn't negative spaces on the drawings - often it's just everything cramped all together - and often the staging is killed by wrong angles.

EDIT : And here's my posts.
Spoiler:
@Leo wrote:I have nothing against them but again, they're just superficial copies of what good cartoons were.
See?
@Leo wrote:It's somewhat a fake cartoon. It tries to revive all of the great cartoony traditions. It somewhat does that but it only does that superficially.
Can you see where I said that I wanted detailed drawings?
@Leo wrote:When you say "The art back then did seem worse", I really hope you're talking about Filmation's amazingly EXPRESSIVE animations (can't call these things cartoons).

Because the art back then is amazing, at least for the cartoons made in the Golden Age of Animation.

Now the art is bad. We often get copies of copies of copies of copies of copies of UPA and other people who were skilled at doing flat cartoons and Disney (Don Bluth and Dreamworks come to mind).
Here, I mentioned UPA, which back then was doing awesome flat (and stylish) cartoons.
I even despise Filmation's detailed drawings (which in turn gives you stiff and weird animation).
@Leo wrote:Not only that, but visual fun should be added so we could call the stuff we see on TV today "cartoons".

Simpsons don't have visual fun. Neither does Family Guy or Futurama or South Park. Sure, you may all laugh at the jokes in there like I do, but I don't think it's a good "cartoon". More like a animated sitcom or so. And these don't even have something that ironically they all say they have : LIFE. Yes they don't have life. All they have is robots that are always standing upright no matter what. No line of action or anything that's visually funny. Nothing that makes you laugh when you look at it, which was one of the priorities of cartoons back when they were good. Very few modern cartoons managed to do it well. Ed, Edd n Eddy was one of them.
No seriously, did you even read my posts?

I hope someone else has other thoughts about this.
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on 11/26/2011, 9:38 pm
@Jellal wrote:
@Leo wrote:
@Jellal wrote:See, what you're doing is defining cartoons to your own requirements, making you an elitist.
Elitists are never right.

I'm not defining cartoons to my own requirements.

Cartoons - I don't know if you noticied - ARE/SHOULD BE CARTOONY.
I don't know why some people like to think they should be anything else but fun and cartoony. Making serious, boring and bland things and then putting CARTOON on top of them is not right.
You just contradicted yourself right there.
You said cartoons should have some fluidity of real life motion, and not a simplistic art style, when simplistic art styles themselves convey a more cartoony esque feeling.
Your whole rant is just silly.
You're silly.
Your country is silly.
Your continent is silly.
The world is silly.
The solar system is silly.
The galaxy is silly.
The universe is silly.

Im gonna fap to your avatar and pretend its the real you >;3

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on 11/26/2011, 10:01 pm
@Leo wrote:
@Jellal wrote:You just contradicted yourself right there.
You said cartoons should have some fluidity of real life motion, and not a simplistic art style, when simplistic art styles themselves convey a more cartoony esque feeling.
Hey it's ok
Like if anyone doing these new cartoons have a solid understanding of all animation principles plus talent, but it's ok.
Something something something incoherent side.
@Leo wrote:
And where the hell did I say that cartoons should have fluidity of real motion.
@Leo wrote:
And these don't even have something that ironically they all say they have : LIFE. Yes they don't have life. All they have is robots that are always standing upright no matter what. No line of action or anything that's visually funny. Nothing that makes you laugh when you look at it, which was one of the priorities of cartoons back when they were good. Very few modern cartoons managed to do it well. Ed, Edd n Eddy was one of them.
This rant implies that you cannot have simplistic motion, but something fluid like motion conveyed in real life.
@Leo wrote:
And again I never said I want detailed drawings. I don't know where are you getting that from - probably from this weird mind of yours. If you read my posts you will see that in absolutely no post I'll say I want realistic drawings.
Of course, I never said you wanted realistic drawing. But as for where you said you wanted elaborate drawings...uh...yeah...I have no idea where I got that. You're right bro, probably from my weird mind.
@Jellal wrote:Art doesn't need to be something elaborate for the cartoon to be good.
@Leo wrote:But should be.
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on 11/26/2011, 10:37 pm
Hayley Williams <3 Joey's avatar :Q

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on 11/26/2011, 10:42 pm
Ooh, look, Joey, trying to start issues again.

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on 11/26/2011, 10:51 pm
@Patt wrote:Ooh, look, Joey, trying to start issues again.
Jellys gonna jel

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on 11/26/2011, 10:54 pm
It's not really issues as it is debating.
There's no harm obtained from debating.

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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
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on 11/26/2011, 11:17 pm
Just stop.

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on 11/26/2011, 11:27 pm
Again, there's no harm being done, and it's relevant to the topic.
And it's not a senseless flamewar where I'm just throwing insults around every post.

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If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
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on 11/27/2011, 4:28 am
BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKING EVERYWHERE!!

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@darkdragon581 wrote:ping, i don't see you getting 'boodie' anytime soon, i don't care if your black, its most likely not going to happen
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on 11/27/2011, 4:56 am
@Ping wrote:BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKING EVERYWHERE!!
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on 11/27/2011, 6:12 am
@Ping wrote:BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKING EVERYWHERE!!

...and out of left field...

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Leo
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on 11/27/2011, 6:30 am
@Jellal wrote:This rant implies that you cannot have simplistic motion, but something fluid like motion conveyed in real life.
I said that there are some shows that lack life.

Even the most simple shows can have life.
@Jellal wrote:Of course, I never said you wanted realistic drawing. But as for where you said you wanted elaborate drawings...uh...yeah...I have no idea where I got that. You're right bro, probably from my weird mind.
@Jellal wrote:Art doesn't need to be something elaborate for the cartoon to be good.
@Leo wrote:But should be.
When I say elaborate, I mean that they aren't well done enough, even for what they should be.

I won't carefully explain to you but here's a few stuff that at least the FLAT cartoons should have.

Hierarchy - Details have to follow the big masses. Yeah, even in FLAT cartoons.
Composition
Staging
Good use of negative VS positive space
Line of action - Believe it or not, they should
Organic shapes
Life - And I don't mean fluid movements. Life can be a caricature of real life movements.

I think that's enough already.
So yeah. Simple art isn't done mindlessly. It was (when it was done well) carefully planned and designed, instead of being shapes thrown around.
I'll just leave this here.
The Conversation Thread - Page 2 ZdJVi
This has all of the stuff I mentioned back then, plus more.
Try to find out why they are there. No seriously, now say to me again that the art in cartoons can't be elaborate.
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on 11/27/2011, 8:03 am
....theres no way in fuck you're 14

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Leo
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on 11/27/2011, 8:11 am
But I am.

All this is not hard to grasp. I just had to look in the right places and then learn from there on.
Also this is all common sense and should go to every drawing/animation, regardless of which style is being used - Manga/Anime, Cartoons, realistic drawings, whatever.
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on 11/27/2011, 8:21 am
@Ping wrote:BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY BOOTY ROCKING EVERYWHERE!!
ROCKING EVERYWHERE ROCKIN ERRWHERR

@Face wrote:....theres no way in fuck you're 14
agreed

@Leo wrote:But I am.

All this is not hard to grasp. I just had to look in the right places and then learn from there on.
Also this is all common sense and should go to every drawing/animation, regardless of which style is being used - Manga/Anime, Cartoons, realistic drawings, whatever.
NO, your an ancient cartoon guru, your like hundreds of years old

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Leo
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on 11/27/2011, 8:28 am
@D3Anims wrote:NO, your an ancient cartoon guru, your like hundreds of years old

Nope.
All I do is read books on the subject, watch old cartoons, see other people talking about them, read sites and blogs about it and so on.

There are other people who have more interesting stories about their lives and how cartoons changed them. I'm not one of those. I'm just a long-time lurker.

And talking about something else.
IS THIS WHAT I THINK IT IS?
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on 11/27/2011, 10:23 am
well after speaking with you,maybe there is hope for the future..... *reads an post by Jellal*.....well, small hope

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