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Clovis15
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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Empty The Importance of Writing to Your Flash

on 1/23/2011, 1:53 am
I posted this here as it isn't really a tutorial, and it didn't seem to logically go anywhere else either.

I see a lot of people here working feverishly at improving their abilities to animate battle sequences, and some of them are actually getting really good at it. Heck, in that regard, they could easily dance circles around me with two arms tied behind their back and lead weights strapped to their feet. However - and I mean no offense - ultimately all these flashy animation sequences are just tech demos - show cases of animation techniques that the people working on them have mastered. What they lack to take them to the next level isn't an even more cunning camera pan effect, it's scripting.

In this case I'm talking about plot, not action script.

You see, flashy eye candy fights are fun to look at... but if you really want an audience of fans, you're going to need a plot. In this case the plot can not be a half page conversation between Mario and Sonic pissing each other off just so they can start hitting each other. Part of why people love Super Mario Bros Z is because it has a narrative structure, and they actually want to find out what happens next. Now some of you are going to point out that the entire plot of SBMZ is ultimately just an excuse to have his big fights every episode; and while that is true under a fashion of strictly boiled down logic, his fights are more popular than your fights precisely because of that wall of text viewers go through every episode before the action kicks off.

The presence of plot magically transforms the fight sequence into drama.

Again, you fail if your plot is just a half page of villain standing in shadow dialogue before he rushes off to attack the hero for no reason. What has to be done is that you have to stop looking at the plot as the incovnenient thing you have to get out of the way just so you can start animating the fun stuff. In the eyes of your audience, the presence of a real plot is what actually gives the 'fun stuff' meaningful value to them. A lot less people would be giddy about Naruto if it cut out the Ninja Days of Our Lives soap opera ramblings and just got on with the action, or any other Shonen Jump series for that matter.

In fact, writing is so more important than flashy animation that you can make a highly successful flash series with limited animation and predominantly walls of text. A few of you have rightfully pointed out that CTU - the series I work on - is generally nothing more than limited animation and massive walls of text, and yet I still command more audience than you do. This is not me trying to brag about it, just something that I want you to think about if you're still scoffing at what I've been saying so far. That said, there's nothing wrong with also looking damn sexy while you tell a story.

Unfortunately, you can't really teach writing. You can get mechanically better at writing with practice, but I can't teach you how to have a good idea. To this end I propose that in order to take your animation to the next level for real, you consider looking into hooking up with someone who can write.

Although all plots in battle stories are ultimately secretly an excuse for fighting, once you have a decent plot - that isn't blatantly obvious about that fact it's just there to connect the spaces between fight sequences- the popularity of what you're working on will sky rocket.

Think about it.
Words, they're your friends.

If you don't like reading, there always is voicing... but good look with working with the Prima Donnas. Trust me, you'll need it.


Last edited by Clovis15 on 1/23/2011, 3:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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on 1/23/2011, 1:58 am
i think everyone knows this on here,but this is great for the newbs.
and we create fight scenes here because they contain all you have to learn mostly.how to use effects,music movement,and more.
well anyway,scripts are good and all,but i think ahead for my animations.heck,
i got episode one for naruto fusion of worlds already thought outwell scripting
is good,but alot of us like to just go with the flow.
Clovis15
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on 1/23/2011, 2:40 am
I personally would reccomend putting your script to paper before you animate it, that way you can shop the script out to others and get meaningful feedback before you every break ground in Flash. However, this doesn't mean you have to let yourself just be a slave to the script once it comes time to animate. Quite the contrary, I often jump tracks from my scripts in varying degrees all the time; however, I would still be up shit creek without a paddle if I didn't have them at all.
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on 1/23/2011, 2:53 am
well im a non-script animator.so many ideas in my head and they usally stay there.
anyway that may be used for episode 2/3.
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on 1/23/2011, 5:31 am
I agree with you Clovis, there's a buttload of sprite movies with no reason to exist.

But also, there's stuff that are better without a story anyway. NASF for example, don't have a plot, but there's actually lots of mysteries and other stuff behind it (for example, that crazy DEFEATED portal), while having no scripts.

Something I like to do with my stuff is :

I write basically the whole script. Just without dialogue. Then, I start animating based on that script.

Then I start making the lines of the characters as I go animating. I feel I can be more creative this way.
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on 1/23/2011, 5:48 am
Like I said, I can't teach people how to write. Everyone will find their own ways to write, and what works well for one might not work so well for another. Sometimes I have done something very similar to what you do, animating from an outline and making the dialogue up as I go along (just be sure to have multiple people beta test it for typos before you release it to Newgrounds when you do this). I only emplore that people do write, as a story brings everything together so much more meaningfully.

I haven't seen this NASF. Do it really have no story, or just no dialogue? There is a difference. The famous There She Is series has a very DEEP story about love and racism, but no one ever says a single word in it... nor was it ever needed. Fully visual story telling can be a ridiculously powerful art when done well.
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on 1/23/2011, 6:08 am
Nah, it doesn't have a story.

BTW, NASF is the creation of Mr. Lange.
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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Empty Re: The Importance of Writing to Your Flash

on 1/23/2011, 6:52 am
@Clovis15 wrote:I personally would reccomend putting your script to paper before you animate it, that way you can shop the script out to others and get meaningful feedback before you every break ground in Flash. However, this doesn't mean you have to let yourself just be a slave to the script once it comes time to animate. Quite the contrary, I often jump tracks from my scripts in varying degrees all the time; however, I would still be up shit creek without a paddle if I didn't have them at all.

I agree with Clovis..

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on 1/23/2011, 10:35 am
You're gonna give off the wrong message with this. I know you're trying to say a good plot doubles the effect of just a good fight, however very few people take that as something to put passion in, so they're gonna just do it in hope that people will say "well it has a plot at least so here's some slurp and high scores".
SMBZ is a DBZ parody in essence, it wouldn't have as much of a DBZ feel without the DBZ type plot.

There's also the fact that somethings simply work better without a plot, beautiful works of art can actually be RUINED with a plot, even if the plot and dialogue in it is actually good.
It's not that fight scenes and animation need to have a plot, they need to made well enough, that you feel the characters enough, you question more than just why are the fighting, but stay so true to the character and use logic, that you start to put pieces together and figure things out, and make your own reason for why are they fighting.

It's not about plot, that's what angers me about people who bitch about "no plot, so 0 bomb". Nothing needs to tell a story, it just needs to give you the IDEA.

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Clovis15
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on 1/23/2011, 4:18 pm
It's really more than just story telling makes people appreciate fight scenes more, but I was trying to tailor the message to the interests of the audience here (whom seem to be predominantly interested in making flashy fight sequences). That said, flashy fight scenes that are just two people wailing on each other are uploaded almost daily to Newgrounds and will have a very hard time standing out as a result. Also, a plot that can be meaningfully conveyed without words is actually still a plot and part of what I'm trying to encourage.

Take Rise of the Mushroom Kingdom as an example, its silent plot - which IS a plot, despite its lack of words - is a large part of why people still remember it to keep mentioning it all these years later (although I really think Episode 2 should have stopped 5 seconds sooner and 3 and 4 never be made, but that's just me). In the time since it has come out there have been many very well done utterly plot devoid fight scenes that people looked at, said it looked nice, and then were immediately thereafter forgotten for all time to come.

I didn't immediately suggest silent story telling in the original post because it's a dangerous trap for beginning people to tango with, as it demands far more saavy to pull of than using dialogue.


Last edited by Clovis15 on 1/23/2011, 5:58 pm; edited 3 times in total
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on 1/23/2011, 4:25 pm
yea,apprently people do fights without having anything.its like
"hey,wanna fight?"
"sure,lets go!"
i hate them.some are test but alot of people
do a series with mostly fighting.its like the heck?
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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Empty Re: The Importance of Writing to Your Flash

on 1/23/2011, 5:03 pm
narutoall76 wrote:yea,apprently people do fights without having anything.its like
"hey,wanna fight?"
"sure,lets go!"
i hate them.some are test but alot of people
do a series with mostly fighting.its like the heck?
Those types of people are either
Using "test" as an excuse, hoping people will forgive the lack of fucking effort or just doing it for the fame, knowing that fight scenes are so done and popular they will get their share of the fame.

I do it because I'm still learning, despite me knowing as much as i know, l vs s has no plot but it's a huuuuuuge project for me, because as anyone who remembers it's updates, I'm always trying something very new and complex with it, so that, along with most other sprite animations i will make (until series) will be catalysts for learning something new.
I may not offer a reason, but i offer you something new, not just a dump, like Clovis stated, SO MANY people constantly do. They give the others who put more than just punches and kicks to their flash a bad name.

And to clovis, i don't mean VISUALLY telling a plot. I mean a fight scene if done well can give you the IDEA not the story, visually or not. That is all you need, the idea, that will then be filled with your imagination, making it a lot more fun then if told straight on.

I don't think the Mona Lisa, which is like the most famous and admired painting in the world, would be so cherished if
People knew who she was
Why Davinci drew her
Why was it never finished
Who was it for? Or was it for himself?
If there is or isn't a hidden message.
All of these questions, never to be answered, yet so loved.

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on 1/24/2011, 10:37 pm
Clovis. I love you.

I made a post about this. HarryControl, a great sprite animator, agrees with my opinion too. Would you like to see :3?

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Ping10
@darkdragon581 wrote:ping, i don't see you getting 'boodie' anytime soon, i don't care if your black, its most likely not going to happen
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on 1/24/2011, 10:55 pm
Pingboy wrote:Clovis. I love you.

I made a post about this. HarryControl, a great sprite animator, agrees with my opinion too. Would you like to see :3?
Unwarrantedselfimportence
Shut the fuck up ping.

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Clovis15
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on 1/24/2011, 11:57 pm
Sure, let's see it (although, I think the asking for permission part was a bit overkill).
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on 1/25/2011, 1:55 am
Clovis, you are my hero! cheers

And I've already discussed this on another topic, so I really don't feel the need to repeat myself.
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on 1/25/2011, 9:54 pm
@Eric wrote:
Pingboy wrote:Clovis. I love you.

I made a post about this. HarryControl, a great sprite animator, agrees with my opinion too. Would you like to see :3?
Unwarrantedselfimportence
Shut the fuck up ping.
wait did you take that from joey or did joey take it from you?

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on 1/26/2011, 12:08 am
http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Unwarrantedselfimportence
Careful on the first link. You'll see a butthole with a stick in it that says, "FAP FAP FAP".

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on 1/26/2011, 12:34 am
@Eric wrote:
Pingboy wrote:Clovis. I love you.

I made a post about this. HarryControl, a great sprite animator, agrees with my opinion too. Would you like to see :3?
Unwarrantedselfimportence
Shut the fuck up ping.
It seems you know exactly what the fuck I am talking about, titty boi, but it is TOO LATE.
HAHA. Harry and I are with Clovis. We have ideal minds. :3.
Here you go Clovis.
https://www.thespritas.com/t1697p50-post-nasf


Last edited by Pingboy on 1/26/2011, 1:57 am; edited 1 time in total

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Ping10
@darkdragon581 wrote:ping, i don't see you getting 'boodie' anytime soon, i don't care if your black, its most likely not going to happen
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on 1/26/2011, 12:49 am
Spamland. How ironic.
EDIT: Damn you for adding a link instead. >;(


Last edited by ShadowmanX125 on 1/26/2011, 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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Clovis15
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on 1/26/2011, 1:46 am
What the hell kind of hornets' nest did I just wake up here?

Edit: There was originally a wall of quotes up above when I posted this.


Last edited by Clovis15 on 1/26/2011, 2:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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on 1/26/2011, 1:47 am
Dude, pingboy, I appreciate your enthusiasm and support but please just link us the topic next time. I would almost label it as spamming considering the other options you had.

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Luigi-o
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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Empty Re: The Importance of Writing to Your Flash

on 1/26/2011, 1:57 am
Done, and...done?

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Ping10
@darkdragon581 wrote:ping, i don't see you getting 'boodie' anytime soon, i don't care if your black, its most likely not going to happen
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on 1/26/2011, 1:59 am
Much better! Very Happy

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Luigi-o
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?" - Matthew 16:26
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on 1/26/2011, 2:18 am
Huzza! It's great to know that we have something in common.

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The Importance of Writing to Your Flash Ping10
@darkdragon581 wrote:ping, i don't see you getting 'boodie' anytime soon, i don't care if your black, its most likely not going to happen
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